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Episode Description

In leaner times such as these, it is important to make the most out of every opportunity that enters your shop. The absolute best way to do this is by performing a thorough Digital Vehicle Inspection (DVI) and communicating the information to your customer in an easy-to-digest format. Join us for this week’s episode where we are joined by three guests who will demonstrate the immense value of DVI and what an impact it can make in your shop.

First, we will be joined by Ryan Flattum (RMF Auto Service, Hudson, WI) who has made huge leaps in his shop over the last 8 months by committing his team to the AutoVitals’ DVI process. Ryan will tell us why DVI has made such a big impact and how it’s keeping his shop healthy during these uncertain times.

Also joining us will be DVI experts Roy Foster (Roy Foster’s Automotive, Reno, NV) and Bill Connor (AutoVitals, former NAPA Tech of the Year) who will show us exactly HOW shops can craft their inspections to simply make more revenue. By watching the live episode you will learn:

  • How to capture quick wins in the DVI process
  • Metrics your shop should be looking at and targets you should be shooting for
  • How to effectively communicate the inspection to your customer
  • The power of picture-taking and editing

Episode Transcript

*This transcript was generated using Artificial Intelligence. Errors may occur. If you notice an error, please contact [email protected].

– Good morning and good afternoon, welcome to this week’s edition of the Digital Shop Talk Radio. I’m Tom Dorsey. Today we’re going to be talking about fighting your declining car count with a tablet. Wielding around like a light saber. So we’re welcoming back Ryan Flattum from RMF Auto Service in, hopefully sunny and warm Wisconsin. We’re getting in the springtime. Welcome Ryan. Ryan’s got a couple of locations up there. And we’ve got Roy Foster joining us from Roy Foster’s Automotive in Reno, Nevada. Welcome back Roy.

– Thank you.

– Thank for coming on guys. I’ve got my co-host with the most year Uwe Kleinschmidt joining us again and Bill Connor one of our epic AutoVitals trainers getting out there every day, rolling up his sleeves and helping shops to succeed. And so today what we want to really get into and talk about is everybody knows, I mean looking at the data that I see, I would say as an average at least across our Network we’re probably down 30-35%, you know in car count, a lot of areas. And but you know what, when you dig a little deeper, you see that there are shops that are following some best practices that are actually growing their revenue in the face of that declining car count. So we’ve got a couple of folks that are doing that here on today. They’re gonna tell us how we’re gonna get that done. So let’s start out there if we could. You know Roy, I’ll start with you. What’s it been like for ya and how are you staying busy and profitable?

– Yeah, so you pretty much described it exactly right. So car count’s down and fortunately we had all these best practices in place, right. I’m feeling really fortunate. Having the tablets, just having the process down already and seeing my guys just maximize all the opportunities coming through the shop. Obviously they’re spending a little more time with each vehicle because I’m seeing the average number of recommendations, PRO going up. The ARO’s way up. Like to see the revenue a little higher, but considering where the car count is I’m really happy. You know we’re doing great. So March we actually increased about 8% in March. So that was pretty nice considering some of what I’m hearing around me.

– Yeah, exactly and it’s to your point. Is you had the fundamentals in place. You had those best practices in place and you focus on those and they carry you through. Ryan are you seeing similar, you know results in your shop?

– We are seeing similar results. You know the day they shut the country down, our phone quit ringing for the most part. So we did a couple of unique marketing things to try and get some some cars in the parking lot for one. But then once we got the cars in the parking lot, obviously the inspection were key and they have been. And they’ve proven to be. Our ARO is up massively compared to, our car count still down but our ARO is up. Extensively.

– That’s fantastic. And that again that’s and it’s probably one of those things where you look at. Because as I go through the data and I see and all of a sudden, oh, inspections sent rate is up. Number of recommendations per vehicle is up. And you probably kick yourself and wonder why you didn’t do it from day one. You know and so what is the plan to continue those best practices moving forward, so that you kinda stay sharp even when we’re back to the feast part when we get busy again.

– I was never a big fan of meetings. You know I kind of thought they were counterproductive a little bit, because the guys aren’t actually turning a wrench right? Without a weekly meeting, I don’t know that you can sustain proper inspections. I mean you know we have a half hour to an hour weekly meeting per shop each week. And the guys enjoy it and it changes our inspections.

– Yeah, that’s fantastic. So let me ask you this. Roy, same question to you buddy. How do you plan on keeping the momentum coming out of the downturn?

– I totally agree with Ryan, right. The meetings are super important. We’ve actually ratcheted up to a daily. Hasn’t been a long meeting but every day we were talking about it. You know yesterday I’m talking about the staff with my guys. Like look at this, this needs to be the new standard. This is what we’re doing and this is now the expectation right. So, the meetings are huge and we talk about the KPIs almost every time in our meetings. And you know it’s not because of lack of imagination, it’s because the repetition of learning, you know these guys are starting to get it. And now they’re seeing the results. They’re hearing about dealerships around town where they’re down to two techs and one service writer in these huge facilities. They’re hearing about their friends not working. And here they are just business as usual pretty much over here. So they’re seeing the results and the buy-in is awesome.

– So you’ve seen, some applications from other techs coming through?

– A couple, nothing great yet. But I’m aggressively trying to build up my bench right now, so I can get a bunch of those guys lined up. So when I do need somebody I’ll at least have that relationship, have already sold them on my business and then just you know hopefully with a phone call move them over. That’s my goal.

– Yeah, hey that’s how you attract the ants. You gotta get a lot of honey. And if you got a full parking lot and doors are open and compressors are runnin’ and you know, that’s from a guy who’s looking at a place to call home, that’s very attractive. And it’s fantastic to be able to stay busy and just be a leader in the community through these times right. Let me as you this Roy, what made you decide to get into take that leap and run digital inspections in your shop?

– It was a long time ago.

– You yeah you–

– A Napa guy came by with with the AutoVitals, you know said, hey check this out. And I was like wow, I gotta have it. I saw the potential the instant he showed it to me. And took a little time to get my guys used to it. But a while back we had a little glitch where we didn’t have the tablet for a couple of days and man they were clamoring. When the hell you gonna get this fixed? And you know you gotta hurry up get this goin’. And they totally depend on it. They love the chat feature and not a lot of walking around, not a lot of wasted steps in the shop. Just everything is instantaneous all in their tablet. They’re not looking for paperwork. It’s just a well-oiled machine with the tablet for sure.

– Yeah but it’s funny you know you go from, oh my gosh you know what a disruption and we’ll never use this thing or be able to use it. And then, oh my I need my tablet back what do you mean. As a matter of fact Bill Connor was the one who really kind of taught us that before Bill came to work with us. He was over at Craig’s, you know we had a seasoned crew over there, you know they they were long in the tooth. As I would like to say. And boy Bill had them whipped into shape in nothing flat. You know it didn’t take long we used to, as a matter of face we had a video Marko used to use for, where he was just I’m putting a lot of good hours and they’re right here on this tablet, wouldn’t go back. Remember those days Billy?

– Yep, sure do. And like I said that was just a matter of finding out his particular sweet spot. And he couldn’t spell and he didn’t like to go a type on a the tablet and as soon as he found voice-to-text that was his best friend he would never part with it and so it’s just like any other employee find out what’s in it for them and then add more to it and then keep going on.

– Yeah buddy, that was fantastic, then we really learned a lot as a company and as a solution provider from what Bill was doing there with that crew, we learned a lot. You know Ryan when you got started, you were just out, I saw you, I think last at a workshop, huh. I was up there, not too bad it was probably about six, seven months back. It was the winter, I think last year. Bill I know when– Go ahead.

– That’s when we really bought in. We had it for a couple of years before that.

– Yeah right exactly. And I remembered coming out of there. You had a pretty significant gains. What was the difference? And let me ask you this, what was the difference? You had it, you know you kicked it around. Was it push back from the crew? Was it just, you know it’s a gimmick-type thing, or it’s not proven? And then what changed once you came to the workshop and what did you implement?

– You know at first we got it. Without getting too long-winded. Uwe gave a presentation in Chicago on a BDG leadership conference. And I kinda, you know I saw it like this thing is great. Right, but I brought it back. I had, my brother was service writing for me at the time. I brought it back and I kind of just said, this is a great tool, here it is, use it.

– Yeah, good luck, right?

– Here’s the hour button.

– Right, you know not attempting to implement it myself and just saying, here guys here’s a tool you need to use and that kind of deal. And he left and went on to do something else. He didn’t really buy-in either. He didn’t buy-in a whole lot, but I wasn’t any help, right. So fast forward he went to your conference. He wasn’t working anymore. I understood the product, once you explained it. It made total sense to me. It made total sense. So the funny thing is he’s back working for me now. Just recently in the last couple of months. So I’m trying to train him on this and just yesterday I said, “Honestly Taylor, I’m to the point “where if I don’t have this tool to sell, “if I don’t have this tool “when I talk to the customer, “I’m like a fish out of water, I don’t know what to do.” So I’ve gotten to the point where I rely on it so much, it’s almost scary.

– Yeah, exactly. And you know, again, so because when you’re able to come in and put kind of that process in place, right, those best practices that are repeatable, then the trick is that you’ve got to become adept at training and reinforcing those best practices, right. So if you get a new hire in or your bother decides to come back, you gotta get him up to speed in the process because you want to make sure that they’re consistent and following along with what everybody else is doing versus all of a sudden they’re kind of like a log in the river you know and chaos ensues. And your numbers start to dive. How did you make sure that as you’re ramping them up, I mean, did you set goals in there for them to hit? How did you kind of make sure that those best practices were becoming muscle memory in that ramp up?

– We do have goals to hit. At the end of the day though, I mean I think the biggest goal is, hey look techs. Do you want to pull in 10 cars a day and work on them or do you want to pull in two or three, what would you rather do? You wanna bust your ass for $180 ticket every single day and work hard or you can work a lot less and get a $500-$600 ticket and likewise for service advisors. I mean at the end of the day it’s about working a little smarter and not quite harder and they’re understanding that.

– Yeah, and you’re really underscoring that point now, because now with the downturn car count’s down. But your ARO is up over the last month or so isn’t it?

– Yeah, it’s up quite a bit. It’s up a lot.

– So it’s kinda, yeah, there’s proof in the pudding right there. You know after that I guess it’s hard to argue. It’s hard to argue with numbers. How have you been maintaining that? Is there anything extra that you had to do to grow that ARO or is it just that you had that process in place and the best practices were being adhered to and that’s the result.

– I did a little creative with marketing sometimes. I literally sent an email and a Facebook post out to all of my customers offering them a 20% discount on any repair.

– Wow, yeah sure.

– We capped it at $250 max. But uniquely enough along with that 20% discount and a proper inspection, they want to take advantage of the $250 right. So it’s it’s massively increased our average ARO with the proper inspection.

– Yeah, and there you go. Now it’s just up to the team to recoup that promo right and find additional services and work to sell. Nah, it’s fantastic. So Bill when would you say, because on the other side of that coin, is you’ve been working with a lot of shops over the last couple of months now to try to say, hey, you know you gotta go back to the well, you gotta trust the process. What’s been the challenge for you and what are you doing to overcome that?

– Actually over the last month or so, it’s been a lot easier to go ahead and get shops to work on process and procedure.

– Desperation.

– Well I don’t know if that’s the case and it may be just time. But I’ve actually found that by going ahead and looking through their inspections we find that the technicians have been doing a pretty damn good jobs of spotting needs, even more so now than before. And we’ve always focused on Motorist Research Time, but one of the most interesting things we found is that if we asked them if the customer is at the shop and your shop has five recommendations, how much time would the technicians spend on average to explain that to the customer in the shop? Across a network, all the hundreds of shops I work with they’re telling me between one and two minutes per recommendations. And I said, “Well, if you want the same type “of approvals in the digital world, “then why is it acceptable for you to have a Motorist “Research Time of 60, 70, 80, 90 seconds.” And I can see the light bulb going on through the screen and all a sudden, it’s like, oh, I get it now. So if you want to replace a process that’s a tried and true process that works, which is show and tell at the site of the car with the digital tools. Then that’s the kind of mindset you have to have. You know this is what good look like, that’s how long it would take, now we can do it on 100% of repair orders and by controlling the content and the timing of the content it just works. So this is a great time for me as a trainer to go ahead and work on process procedure. I don’t have people going ahead and saying, hold a minute, the phone’s ringing. They’re concentrating 100%, they’re learning, absorbing and implementing. So it’s good and these two guys, the R and R show we got here today, they’ve got the process and procedures in place. So to bring that next person on for growth, it’s just a matter of you’re other guys are gonna help compliance to keep them in tone. So, it’s just gonna work really well. So congratulations to them on being ahead of the curve and now when you start gathering up some of the other people for growth it’s gonna make your life a lot easier.

– Yeah, because you know we’re almost plug n’ play at that point right, if you got your process down. John Long’s saying in his market, the available talent is drastically increased. So they’re out there. Uh, once you can attract them is you plug them in get them on the bench, whatever you have to do to keep them engaged and get them on the team. So, let’s talk a little, actually why don’t you tell us a little bit about how do you look at it. Because there’s one thing to come out with a digital inspection for a shop, right? But if you could give people that are listening a little insight into how you improve upon that right? What was your goal in the beginning? What was your vision looking like? What was your plan? What did you want to solve? And then how did it turn into what it is today?

– Happy to share. We actually had digital inspections, just didn’t call it this way, oh in 2013. Also was allowed to take the cell phone, take a picture and text it with the license plate number to a certain place. And then we would attach those pictures to the estimate and we were super proud of that feature. And then we were thinking only half of our customers use it or not even. What were we doing wrong? And we realized we just added another tool to the vast tool box of service advisors they had to use. The constant switching between tools, the constant interrupt driven work didn’t allow them to actually take advantage of it. And so that was a huge, for me, a huge epiphany. It’s not just about a tool It’s about how does it fit in the process, number one. And number two, if it requires change of existing process to reap all the benefits, how you do that? So my favorite analogy is, if you switch from a landline to a smartphone and you don’t change your process, then you only use it at home or at work and you start wondering why the keys are so small. And you don’t use 99% of it’s capabilities. Right, so that was the big epiphany. That we have to start thinking about how can we help the shops to change the process to really leverage the benefits of a digital inspection at that time? And we made it the goal to basically say our goal was to be to reduce the service advisor’s busy work in the busy time.

– Exactly.

– So they can play more attention to the customer. So it was not about the tool feature of, is there a circle and is it a high-risk picture and can it be emailed or texted? It was how do we help the service advisor reduce busy work. And that has been the guidance, you know until today. And we all know, I mean I would really, I don’t want to take over here. But the poll result–

– You’re done.

– The last poll said 90% of the respondents said it’s the biggest challenge is really convincing techs to change the process. And I’m really curious Ryan and Roy, you know was that an iterative process how you did it? Did you know exactly how to convince your techs? Did you try several things until it worked? If you wouldn’t mind sharing–

– Did you get a bigger hammer?

– Mind sharing how you did it, I would be really grateful.

– Sure, so for me, like I said we have the tablets for a long time. And we were using them about as consistently as we should. And then I think it was 2018 when I went to the digital conference. And once I learn the potential, once I had like a 100% buy-in and came back excited and was able to start teaching them, you know, and showing them the fruits of doing this, not just not just from the customer’s perspective, but from the owner’s perspective where the tablets generate so much data that I could actually help them to bill more hours, to you know be more effective in their job. So I think the first buy-in was me. And then once I had it figured out, I mean we’ve just been, we’ve been soaring. And I’ve taken on a couple new guys since and it’s been no problem integrating them. You know, one guy in particular moved up here from Vegas, worked in a dealership, had never seen a digital inspection or used a tablet. And you know he loved it right out of the gate. He loved the concept and he learned it quickly. And like you said, my guys helped him with it and just brought him up to speed. So I think the owner has to understand the full potential of it and have an excitement for it and then you know it has to start at the top.

– Okay, Ryan, I totally agree.

– Yeah, real quick, you know John Long has commented in, he was saying for him, it was fundamentally it was set up, right. If you’re set up correctly, it causes frustration for the technicians and then they, you know, they cut corners or they just they just put it on the shelf. How did you make sure that, to Uwe’s question, how did you make sure that you’re set up and in the process was clear and transparent and do you credit that for you know, your success in ramping them up onto the digital inspection program?

– I’m gonna kind of go back to meetings because if you can just get one tech to buy-in and you can get some success stories and start sharing success stories with either that tech or your service advisor, I’ll give you one example. And this is the one example I used quite a bit with everybody. I had to jump in as a service advisor over the last six months ’cause we were down one and a new customer came in with a Ford truck and he wanted us to install his own spark plugs, right? Not an easy job, one of those Tritans, they get carboned in there and we’re like, okay sure. It’s only one and done. He brought his car and we did a full digital inspection. Long story short, I never talked to the guy. We just chatted back and forth via text message. He got us the wrong spark plugs. His ticket was $4,000 when he left with maintenance and repairs and he was over the moon happy. And I never talked to him. Never talked to him. So I mean and as a service writer, I know they like talking to people. But their sales pitch on the phone is their biggest downfall, right? So I’m battling that right now with Taylor. He’s trying to do both, right. So there’s a transition there that takes a little bit of time, but if they just trust in the product and start using the product. It just takes one is what I’m saying. Once you can get one and you start talking about it, everyone else is looking at him going, why is he got so much work to do?

– Exactly, yeah and that’s great, I mean that’s a great way to introduce it and to get it. You know and I used to challenge shops and especially in the early days. You know it’s hard to get even people to consider it. They thought we were crazy. Tablet in my shop, that thing will break in a day. Right, I used to hear that all the time. And so I used to tell them, I’ll make you a challenge. Give me your give me your weakest tech and let me put them on these inspections and run it for a pay period and see who, and put him up against your best guy and see who, at the end of the day, who sells more work. And that’s a pretty easy bet to win right there. Because if you just follow some pretty basic best practices. Back then we would just tell them, take x amount of pictures and make some circles and make sure you text it. You know pretty basic. But it works, right? And it helps almost anybody. You can come in off the street and do a complete inspection. Especially now once guided comes out, you know oh my gosh. You could strap it to your Chihuahua and just as long as he can walk around the car, you’re gonna get a solid inspection done. But no seriously and the results just speak for themselves. You know we’re gonna start talking actually about kinda, I want to bring Bill in and talk about what’s that process look like? How do we get that established? You know become kind of muscle memory those best practices, through the shop meetings. Maybe you know some good pointers on how to structure those and how to take advantage of those. And what you actually talk about. Because you know to Roy’s point, doing a daily standup if it’s all metrics based, that is a great idea. It just sets a good reminder in the morning before we get out into the bays. We have our number in mind. We know what we need to score today to win the game. And we stay focused on that and more often than not it’s gonna happen if you give me a clear direction and tell me which way to run. So let’s chop that up a little bit, talk about that and talk about some of the other, you know best practices that you guys have been relying on through this downturn to grow that ARO. Bill you wanna kick this off a little bit and get us started? What does the typical, I would say kind of check-in look like, when you’re calling a shop, do you go, what does that process look like? How do you analyze where they’re at and what we need to talk about? And what does that process look like from your perspective?

– I’m sure Roy is that pretty familiar with my process on it and that is we go ahead and he’s already ready. He’s got the business control panel open. He’s got the multi-shop list open and then we go down that list and identify one or two things that they need to work on and we take off from there. So here recently I’ve adopted is, I have shops that are coming on board. I go ahead and start looking at the, after they’ve got some inspections done that they’re sending out, I look at the Motorist Research Time. And if it’s up in and level that’s in a good spot, I know a whole bunch of other things have went right. If I look at that KPI and it’s low, then what I can do is I can start looking for the edit rate in other things that actually feed into that and dissect it from there. And then one of the tools that we actually use really often is what we called the inspector result audit. So as soon as the staff understands is that look, you know, having the information on the pictures is a combined effort between the service writer and the technician, working together as a team, so it’s not us against them. They all work together as a team and that everybody is responsible to go ahead and have four elements on the pictures. So if something’s bent, folded or mutilated, we expect to have an arrow pointing right directly to it. Just like the technician would do in the shop. And it should say this is what the component is, here’s why he needs to be serviced and here’s the reason to buy today. If they have them elements on it, that’s what we’re looking for and that’s what is giving the transparency to customer. And so then what we’ll do is we’ll show them how to do an inspection result audit that they could do this in their meeting. I encourage them to do one or two audits during each meeting for three, four, five weeks in a row and a goal there is after everybody knows what should be on them. To go to the Communication Center, filter it to go and get inspection results only, let them randomly pick one or two from the list and have them go down and let your tell you what they could do better and then after one or two people have set it. Ask the next guy, can you add anything else to it? So now you’re building a culture of teamwork in the shop and it just works.

– That’s fantastic, yeah. So there’s a lot of nuggets to make sure that you know, write them down, we’ll have this recording posted up. You know afterwards, if you know so that you can review that. But it’s really critical to, I think the Bill’s point is if you structure, not only how you communicate through that picture to the customer with those three critical success factors, but then also identify those in your meetings and in your audits to reinforce what does that look like? Why is it important? And then you know show the results, right. Show that increase in hours sold. Show that increase in ARO, whatever it might be, down to the individual level to how it impacted that technician directly, it’s gonna click and people are gonna pick that up. Ryan, when you’re having your meetings in the shop, I’m mean are you following that? Obviously you are, because Bill wouldn’t have said you were if you weren’t. But, I guess what I want to know is do you notice a bump that stays consistent after you kind of set that guideline and communicate that in the meeting?

– I think he’s talking to you Roy.

– That one was for you Ryan. But I’ll take you from anybody.

– Oh it was?

– Yeah.

– Well Bill is not my coach.

– Oh, thought I’m sorry I thought you were, because when you described your meeting, it sounded exactly like what Bill said. So did you come to that on your own? Or did you learn that from Bill at the conference?

– I guess we’ve developed a little bit on our own. That was a lot of good information that Bill just gave me, so I was writing stuff down as he was talking.

– All right well Roy tell us about it. You know because really that, I think that’s the critical thing that we want to make sure that we get across to folks is that we really want to set an expectation, right, set a goal for them to reach. And then recognize that goal or then give positive feedback and reinforcement on, you know if they’re not there yet and how they get there.

– Yeah so our tech’s goal, one of the things they like to see is hours billed PRO. You know they have a goal set for that and then they can see the correlation. Just like Bill said, if the average Motorist Research Time is low, then we know there’s a problem we can go back and we can, I don’t want to repeat what Bill said. But I think it’s worth doing. You know look at the inspection rate. Look at the number of recommendations per RO. Look at the number of edited pictures, inspection sent. You know all those are key indicators that are gonna drive that up. And then the average Motorist Research Time directly correlates with the ARO. That’s our end product right? We want the ARO up.

– That’s like the cherry on top of the sundae.

– Right, so and I also like what Bill said about the, so I’ve been really transparent in my meetings even even the weekly revenue, I’m sharing with these guys. I’m telling them what our breakeven is and why it’s so high. And why we have to get these kinds of numbers and where the money goes. So there’s been a lot of other education going on. But I think it’s really improved our culture because, you know a lot of techs see all these dollars flowing through, it’s like oh yeah, Roy’s just getting filthy rich while I’m only making $40 of this job. That’s their mentality. Once you start to educate, hey, this money is going somewhere. And then you get in a difficult time like now, I came out and told my guys. We meet everyday like our business is sound. It’s solid. We’re solvent, you guys are going to keep getting paid, you don’t have to worry. You keep doing the inspections and meeting my expectations and you’ll keep getting that regular paycheck and you won’t even notice this. And you know, now they’re understanding, we have reserves built up because we have these good practices and they’re still, just like Thomas, their paychecks are coming in as usual. So I think it’s been really effective. In hindsight, you know the things that Bill’s taught have been just invaluable.

– Fantastic.

– Question from the audience.

– Yeah, sure.

– Roy and Ryan, you know not all techs adapt at the same speed, right. So you have the people who get it quickly and buy into it and some go a little slow maybe or sometimes you have also cases of, it works for half a week and then for the rest of the week it doesn’t. Right, so it goes up and down when you look at the inspection rate, right? How do you do that in the shop meetings? do you go as far as showing individual KPIs and then use it as a learning opportunity? Or is that a one-on-one you do outside of the shop meetings?

– That’s a good question.

– I can take that. So yeah, in the multi shop view, we’re looking at all the KPIs, so they can see and I’ll point out wins, winners and losers. Not to shame anybody, but hey there’s something we can do and then another, like Bill said, you get the techs to start teaching them. The tech’s will chime in. It’s like, hey if you try this or do that, that’s really helped me and you know, it’ll just start to build that culture and consistency. We always talk about consistency and meeting the customer’s expectation. ‘Cause we set the expectation at the counter with the process and then we’re always constantly talking to the techs about meeting those expectations and making sure that experience is what we want it to be. Because we’ll never meet their expectations if we don’t know what it is. But if we set the expectation, we can meet it every time.

– So what are the things that I actually talked to Roy about early on in the business control panel is you’re never going to have all of your employees on the same place in the journey at the same time. So I showed him how in the multi-shot preset to identify one or two KPIs for each employee that they need to work on. And then create a separate preset for them with the expectation is you going to look at them in the next seven days and keep working forward. So using the multi-shot preset is a different type of tool for helping your employees go on and again like he said, it’s not to go in and punish them. It’s to say, these are KPIs I know we’re going to help you and the shop, I need you to focus on them. Please tell me if there’s anything you need to know, as far as me providing more tools, education, let me know. But then what you’re doing is your guiding each employee along on the journey at their own rate, instead of trying to go ahead and, you know force everybody into the same mold. Because if a guy’s already a superstar at inspection, editing and so on, why would you hold him there if you can start working on other things with him? So again, it’s a process and we want to help each person along the journey individually and a group at the same time.

– So Ryan let me ask you something, you know when were talking about what’s important to the tech and how to get the tech, you know to meet his goal and how do we get the service advisor. You know we’ve been talking a lot about KPIs or key performance indicators, right? And really what that is, it’s a metric right? It’s just a number and you can set where you want the number to be, that’s your goal. And you know kind of your baseline. Where you at today? What does that number say? And a KPI or key performance indicator can be applied to pretty much anything. Right, your ARO, your revenue or your inspection rate. What would you say are kind of the most important for the technician? Both for the technician to understand what he needs to produce, but also for you to be able to monitor that technician and make sure that he’s following protocols. And also what do you use for the service advisor to make sure you know the same thing that they’re they’re going to hit the numbers?

– We, you know at the end of the day it’s always average Motorist Research Time, I think is the main goal because that correlates to increased average RO right? But like Roy said, there are some some key factors, inspection sent rate, edited pictures, recommended services.

– Yeah that’s a great one right. You got to have some, you got to have something on the plate, right? For them to offer. You know and when it comes, and so are you doing something similar so where you would say you know kind of here we are as a team and here we are, you know in towards our team goal in relation. And then maybe you go on a one-on-one and break that down for the individual. Because of a lot times, you know I think MRT, Motorist Research Time is a great top-level, because it kind of is a combination between what the tech’s doing and the service advisor’s able to do. But as you look into it, if you drill down, you know some folks might not be making as many recommendation per inspection as others. Some might be editing more pictures than others. You can really find individual kind of behaviors or results, you have those kind of counseling sessions in a one-on-one?

– I do or teamwise. I try and maybe like, I’ll just kind of stop the guys in the shop and I did it this morning actually, stop the guys in the shop and I just monitoring the inspections and the numbers. I went to my enrichment shop this morning and the guys in the back and I just stopped in for a minute I said, hey look guys, you do you know how to do these inspections. And they were quite getting done right. So they weren’t taken enough good pictures to start the trust process with the customer. And they were maybe skipping a step, like they’re taking pictures of something, but it was in the not touched. They didn’t click good. So it’s given more work to the service advisors. So we just had a quick, and I try not to lump anyone individually into shaming them. But I try and talk about it collectively with each team. And like I said, I’ll just do it candidly. I won’t call a meeting or I’ll just say. Let’s just stop for a minute here and talk about this and the impact it has, if we don’t continue to do it right.

– Yeah, no that’s great point right. Because you identify it. I mean it’s like when you’re playing football, right. Everybody know who missed the block. And so you say hey you know get out there and make your blocks. Well you know, you’re going to be the guy, like oh gosh I missed my block. Let me pick it up. You don’t need to call me by name. I know it was me and everybody else knows it was me so let me hustle. And that’s a great point right, is a lot of those times, a lot of things that, you know you don’t have to point somebody out, point the finger at them and say, you’re doing a bad job. But make it calm and information. Because you know rising tide floats all boats. Folks will come help you out and also then, it puts the motivation in me and then there’s people on the team that I can emulate so that I can improve right. I can do what they do and get better. You know Bill we talked something about, I really want to kind of, for folks that are new to this or don’t really, maybe haven’t found the value of what Motorist Research Time is all about yet. Bill if you could talk to us a little bit about how do you establish the best practices that drive to a higher Motorist Research Time with your shops?

– And so Dustin has a multi-shop dashboard available we could share. And I don’t whether it’s wise. Roy would you mind if we shared it or.

– No, sure go ahead.

– So Bill, you could probably talk about it too. I don’t know Dustin if you are the technology whiz, how do we get it big screen?

– So while he’s doing that, I’m gonna go and actually start out. So when we talk about Motorist Research Time and how to change it, it starts with having a property configured inspection sheet. That would be number one, is it educational and automated for the technician? Are the technician and service writer working together to make great content? The service writer seeing what the technician recommends and editing it and getting it estimating and send it to the customer? The drop off conversation with the customer whether it’s on the phone or if it’s at the front counter, which we don’t really have that much anymore. Thankfully, we were trying to get rid of that for 40 years. So the conversation at the counter should always be along the lines of we will be doing an inspection, after it’s completed, we’re gonna send it to you. We do it three or four times a year and we want to do that, so you can only see what’s wearing, we can predict the rate that is wearing at. And after we send it to you, what we like to do is give us a call and we’ll go over with you. So you’re setting the expectation that it’s coming to them and that they’re supposed to do something with it and then call you. So we’re putting the customer in a position where they’re educated and ready to go and buy. Rather than the service writer having to wave their hands and describe you know, some kind of magical thing to them. And so that’s what we want to do to go ahead and actually stack the deck in your favor. I like I’m a couple episodes ago, Fred was on there and he actually goes as far as if a customer calls and they haven’t looked over the inspection result yet. He’ll ask them, have you looked it over? And if they say no, he said, look it over and give me a call back here in a few minutes.

– Exactly hangs up on them.

– You know stacking the deck in your favor. I mean if we’re going to Vegas, we’d want to go in the stack the deck in our favor. Why the hell wouldn’t you want to do it when you’re working with your shop? So you know those are the things I’m looking at and earlier you asked a little bit about the KPI’s and the business control panel and how you break down what the technicians should do and what the service writer should do? So on the technician, I want to know the percentage of inspections they’re doing. I want to know the number of recommendations they’re making. So that’s that’s critical. I want to go ahead and show that their KPI for, their average hours per repair order. And then I want to drill down to service advisor efficiency and I want to go in the show the technician their hours per day on average over whatever timeframe. So them are things that really go ahead and excite technician and drive them and you know you could go down to recommendation to sales. Is the technician actually recommending a certain job? That’s where the quick win process comes in in the shop meeting, define exactly what they should do on the topic. Exactly what the picture should look like. Exactly how the service writer should mark it up and then estimate it. Send the damn thing to the customer and let them call you. So controlling all the message the customer’s gonna get. They don’t have to go to anybody else. They don’t have to look for YouTube and find Scotty Kilmer by accident. And then have them go ahead and call you. That’s what we want for really want to do. So you’re removing the pressure from the customer. You’re not going ahead and sending it to them and then picking up the phone and calling them, interrupting their life. Right now that could be dealing with, you know kids and in-laws living in their house ’cause they can’t go anywhere. Let them relax a little bit, look it over and then call you. Now it’s not a pressure sale. They’re not rushing and so on and you’ll just find everything going up exponentially by using the process and having done this with literally hundreds of shops and coaching hundreds and hundreds of shops. You know, I can pretty much tell you what works and using the business control panel everyday when you start looking at things like, if your average number of recommendations is four and you only taken four pictures on average and you’re only going ahead and having 60 seconds of research time, it just doesn’t work. So I have shops all the time that they have 8 or 10 recommendations by the technician, and they’ve taken three pictures. Why in the hell would you have at least one picture per recommendation and them have them edited? So plus another four or five pictures on topics that we want to show the customer wear over time because we should be telling then drop-off, we want to do this three or four times a year to see what changes over time and help you predict what’s wearing in case you need to budget. That’s things are all in on you know customer statements, value statements and that’s kind of what we want to do.

– Yeah, you kind of you know, ’cause I was gonna take you there right, is that we’re on, so yes Motorist Research Time is going to be, really should be the number that you’re driving towards, right. Because everything else follows. You know the sales and it’s not even sales, the education happens and then decisions are made in your favor. That’s really how it worked and it’s one of the hardest things to do is to change that habit of wanting to sell something. To Ryan’s point with kind of how his brother likes to do it. That’s a habit that we learned over time and it’s hard to break, right? And why hate, I’ve been successful at it. I’ve kept my job at least. So I must be doing something right. And to now to say I’m gonna create this story through the pictures and information and then send it off to somebody and I’m gonna wait for them to call me back and ask me questions, that’s really antithetical to how we’re kind of wired to operate and how we think that we should be doing it. And so it takes some time and it takes some consistency and it takes buy-in from both sides internally on a team and then you just have to make sure that process down to where you hit that send button and wait and watch the timer and do these, you know best practice steps. Oh real quick also I wanted to ask, you know we had a great question in from Greg Posnanski. and he wanted to know how does, you know are you guys using voice-to-text in the shops are your techs using it, or are the are the service writers responding back? And you know how does that help, you know the service advisor to communicate the need and educate the motorist? Ryan, I’ll start with you are you guys using the voice-to-text are your techs using it the shop a lot?

– We’re using the little voice-to-text, like with chatting. Not a ton of voice-to-text, like wrong part or something like that they’ll be in the chat. Or some of the techs are using some some language like if they take a picture, they’ll you know voice-to-text, but communicating with a customer, not really, we’re not using that to communicate with the customer minus just adding stuff to the inspection.

– Yeah, yeah and that’s what it would be for is to leave the tech notes and things like that in there instead of typing them out. Roy are your techs using voice-to-text?

– Definitely yeah, they love it. They can’t type real fast most of them and spell real great some of them. So it’s way more efficient for them just to hit it, talk into it, edit their notes quick and then just move on. So yeah, I would say that’s a big winner for us, for sure.

– Yeah, because to your point, it’s quicker, you know, it’ll kind of do some spell correction for you, but then also the nice thing about it is that the service advisor then doesn’t really need to go get extra info. He doesn’t need to try to decipher it and figure out what you’re talking about. It’s gonna put it, you know in pretty plain speak right there in front of them. And a lot of times and that’s another best practice, you really want to train your technicians to leave their notes in a way that you would communicate it to the customer, because then I don’t have to do a lot of editing. I can just add those notes as you know for customer eyes and off it goes and maybe you know you a little period or punctuation here and there to clean it up. But instead of having to go out and shop and ask you what the heck you were talking about and go back and type it all in. It’s going to work like that. So if you’re not using voice-to-text now, make sure you turn that feature on. Give it a shot, just use it in some questions and internal communications at first just to get kind of used to it. And then knock yourself out, it’s gonna be a great tool for your technicians to use when they’re doing the inspections. They just kind of talk to the tablet and tell it the story and then you can easily communicate that over to the motorist.

– Our young guys tease the older guys ’cause the older guys seem to use the talk-to-text a little bit more. And they’re like old people use the talk-to-text. And they’re just a little smarter than you. You got to know faster.

– So one of the things we found when it come to voice-to-text to go ahead get them to adopt is we would actually have a drag race in the shop. And what we’d do is we have a sentence that was written out and we say okay, you’re going to write it out and you’re gonna use voice-to-text and we would use something like, this is your cabin air filter, it needs to be replaced. So you don’t have to breathe this stuff being pulled in the passenger compartment. And I promise you hands down, the voice-to-text will win every time and you won’t be able to read the other one because they’re in a hurry anyways, just like that would be in the shop. So that’s a pretty cool way to go ahead and challenge guys. Say, hey, let’s go ahead and you prove to me that you can write it faster and clearer and you can keep doing what you’re doing. Otherwise, let’s go ahead and use the tools and technology. The other thing I found out recently that I’ve got a lot of shops that I’ve tried to get them to use is a service writer can hook up a Bluetooth earpiece to their PC. They can tap into feel, hold down the Windows key and the letter H and use voice-to-text to enter data in the management system. So we used to think they only had that capability for a technician but now using the tools that are built into Windows 10 and above, it’s really fast for a service writer when they grasp the technology and use it.

– Well that’s pretty awesome. You know Toni Fundberg’s asking a question too. She wondering what are you guys do to try to cut out some of the background noise when they’re using a voice-to-text because it could interfere with what’s getting typed out? You guys got any suggestions for Toni on that? Is there any–

– It’s definitely a challenge. Some guys taking off wheels next to you. You might just have to go walk over to the back room or you might have to just wait a minute and put those notes in, but it’s gonna be a challenge and I don’t know that we can always have the perfect environment for that. So I think that’s what they do. They’ll just walk over somewhere else or walk outside or just wait a few minutes to put those notes in.

– So here’s one of the things that I’ve actually been telling shops when it comes regards to that is, if you got something that you’re gonna have to go and put a lot of data in like, on a repair order you want to put concern, cause and correction in there. That’s gonna take a little bit of typing. Every vehicle comes with its own sound booth from the factory. Sit in the car, shut the damn door and talk away and it just works.

– Good idea. Factory installed.

– Bill has all the answers. That’s awesome.

– Yeah, and Anthony’s saying that the Bluetooth headset can be linked to the tablet too, you can have your techs walking around like secret service out there doing inspections. So you might want to try that too Toni. Toni, she got blown up with great ideas. Get in the car and shut the damn door. That’s our new AutoVitals, that’s our motto now, our tagline. Get in the car and shut the damn door. So real quick let’s talk a little bit about completeness. I want to kind of round it out. You know and give some great takeaways for folks that are either new or really look into following some of the best practices that you guys have shown and actually Dustin if you want to put that business control panel back up there, that was some stunning numbers that I was seeing. I saw a lot of 40% down in car count in green on the ARO and revenue side. Let’s take a look at that, but for folks that want to really get that established, how do you guys handle your inspections? Do you have a single inspection and you expect them to fill out each and every single topic? Do you have kind of like a cursory inspection that you do and then move them to a deeper inspection as they find conditions that they need to investigate more of? And are we, how do you handle marking like, it’s pretty simple when you find something that needs to be fixed right? Take a picture of it, you put the notes and mark it red and it needs to be immediate attention, but what about when, how do you guys, what’s your policy or protocol for mint condition or inspected and passed items? And is it important to get those on the inspection sheet also?

– You know I require pictures in every category. Obviously if there’s nothing in the red you don’t need anything in the red, but there has to be pictures in the green because the good stuff is, if you’re gonna take the air filter out and it’s brand new, why wouldn’t you take a picture of it? I mean you took it out, you can at least show the customer that you took, you’re actually taking a look at it or if you’re testing the battery and it tests good, take a picture of the digital screen. You did it, you may as well show them you did it. I mean I think what we’re trying to do is just have the customer right next to me as we’re doing this inspection but we’re doing it virtually. So, you’re building trust with the good stuff. So I think you need to spend just as much time on the green as you do the yellow and the red stuff.

– And do you guys have mandatory topics set up so the tech can never miss to take a picture?

– That’s a great question.

– You know what, I do not. But that was a topic of discussion this morning. And in going forward we will.

– Yeah, that’s a really good point. And for folks you may not know, you can set up rules inside of your inspection that they can’t be submitted or they can’t even move forward until they, like Uwe said, take a picture that’s required in this certain type of, for this topic. And you know, also to Ryan’s point is that you got it out, take a picture of it, because you know why you can always use that as a comparison image later, couple visits down the road. Hey, remember your cabin air filter, it looked like this two months ago, but now look at it. Hey, we’re comin’ into the summer and it’s just gonna get you know dirtier. So let’s get this things changed out and really allow you to have a resource, almost a library of images that you can refer back to to help overcome objections.

– So Tom really what you mean there is retention starts right from the very first inspection you ever do for the customer.

– That’s right, that is what I meant, thank you. So if you didn’t hear what Bill said is that your retention starts at the handshake, at the introduction.

– It’d be the elbow bump now.

– That’s true you gotta bump. But you set that expectation right there. That’s how our shop operates, we’re a digital shop this is what it’s gonna look like. This is how you’re gonna be involved and engaged and how we’re gonna provide service for you. And that means you’re gonna do everything we tell you on this inspection and you’re gonna come back when we tell you to.

– So one of the other things when we talk about using the inspections as a retention tool also. Is every shop has got what they call a key tosser customer. They just come in and they say, do everything and then the shop always tells me, well, I don’t need to send it to them because they always do everything. I said, I’m gonna encourage you if they’re that good of a customer, exploit it. I said, you’re gonna send it to them and ask them, ma’am or sir, I understand that you don’t need this, but what I’d really like you to do is could you forward this to a friend, coworkers or relative to show them how good we are and how transparent we are? So I don’t buy into the fact that people say, I don’t have to send it to a customer because there’s all kinds of other reason besides liability and other things, but let’s use this as a tool to go ahead and recruit more customers also.

– Yeah, exactly.

– And even the key tossers might have a collegial friend who drives the same car or talks about another experience at a shop and if you can then, and I get this as a digital inspection, look at this. Nobody has complained about too much transparency last time I checked and so it definitely helps.

– Yeah, and that’s a great point to always be consistent. Don’t assume anything. Follow the process, do the best practices, take the pictures, check the items and document because you never know, right? They might publish it up on their Facebook page and you get 10-15 appointments booked. And people like to see you’re complete. You’re showing the good, the bad and the ugly. And I have a record of that and that’s something that’s really important to people is to be able, not only from a resale perspective right, just to be able to show that I’ve been doing it. But also to show you accountable or other people accountable to say this thing was checked, it was done, it’s been replaced. I like to tell, there’s funny story, I grew up out in the country. And we’d always get nests under the hood. You name it cats, birds and mice. One time my mom had this old Chrysler K-car. It was such a pile, but boy that thing had probably 2 million miles on it. And I was having a hard time getting it started, couldn’t keep it running and we got it into Walmart of all places because that’s what we had in town. And they go through and they inspect it and they tell us, oh yeah, you need an air filter and a fuel filter and spark plugs and all this stuff and my mom gets it gone and brings the car home and it’s just, just still not running. So I get out there and open it up and there was a mouse nest inside of the air filter, right. Gotten in there and burrowed in there and made himself a nice home. Well, they told her that she needed one and they sold it to her, they just never installed it. So, it was hard to determine did this mice just fly into there and build that nest on the way home from Walmart or did they actually miss it? And that’s where that digital inspection and actually documenting those steps and taking that picture, show you put it in there. Nice picture of you actually doing the install and the before and after is so important also. Because to the point is that nobody’s ever complained because you’ve given them too much transparency.

– We are out of time.

– Uwe, what are you trying to say?

– We can keep going?

– You wanna go or something? You got somewhere to be?

– No.

– You got to go down and get tested?

– Here’s another question. Does the system have the capability of letting their sales person know to remind a customer of a required follow-up inspection? Yes, if you have it as a service recommendation as part of your retention system and use our retention system it will remind them about an inspection due. Like any other recommended service.

– Yeah, and the nice thing about our reminders is that it actually sends the pictures and the videos and the tech notes and the service advisor notes out to the customer and asks them what do they want to do about it. So it isn’t just a reminder, it’s like a visual reminder right out of the inspection sheet. So again, that’s why it’s important to document those things, even the good stuff because now you have a record of it over time and you can always refer back to that simple click of a button, swivel your monitor around, as a matter of fact, whether the customer is in your shop or not, because you can always text them that information out. And point them in the right direction to help them to review because at the end of the day and one of the key takeaways that I want you to take away today is that taking pictures is half of the battle. Right, marking up the pictures. The other side of it is the education to ensure that your motorist, A, understands those recommendations and doesn’t have to go ask for a second opinion or go google it. And B, you make it real easy for them to give you what do they want to do about it. Text you back or if they’re there at the counter, approve that work. You know make it simple and you’re gonna get much more higher approval and just follow that process. You got anything to add before we break?

– For another hour?

– Yeah, let’s do it. I know Ryan and Roy want to say on for another hour. Look at them.

– Let’s do it.

– No, there’s so much to talk about and maybe we can close with a question like, what is the biggest actually unexpected difference between before and after the digital inspection?

– That’s a good question.

– Ryan can share with us and we experience it so many times, here’s a new tool, use it, it’s expensive, don’t drop it. Right, expect 20% ARO increase in four weeks. I’m just paraphrasing what you said Ryan earlier.

– I did say that.

– Or you’re fired.

– And then throughout the process you learn that there is a change of habit needed to really take advantage of it and so if you’re now in hindsight think back what was the biggest unexpected difference between before and after?

– For me I guess I started the business by myself. I started from brand new, from scratch. And I think the level of trust I gained with the customer was the reason I became successful right, but then when you start adding employees, to try and get them to do the same job or get the customer to trust them the same level as they trust you is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to tackle, right? It’s really really tough and this tool, I think, it’s super easy. It makes it a lot easier right? Like we’re just being totally transparent. So I think the trust and the communication with the customer as long as you’re doing it right is I never would have believed that this tool did that. I just thought it was a tool to help us sell more stuff, right? It totally transforms the way you communicate and the trust factor.

– Awesome. How about you Roy?

– I think the biggest thing for me was you now the, I love the technology and I was attracted to it instantly like I said. But I think the biggest thing for me. I love the feedback from the customers. Almost all our Google reviews mention, hey how great, you know the other shop didn’t let me know about this, thank you so much for inspecting my car. So the trust, the perception, the professionalism. But for me I think it’s the business control panel. And learning that, learning how to really manage my business and that’s been the best byproduct for me. Bill’s taught me tons. And our revenues continue to increase and along with that the customer’s trust and the employees buy-in, everything’s just getting better and better. But the business control panel for me is huge. It’s definitely help me take my business to the next level and really manage my business and my employees.

– Yeah, that’s fantastic and for folks if you’re not using your business control panel, you don’t even know what it is or you’re brand new. Get over to help.autovitals. Dip a toe in there, open it up. It’s right down there, it says Shop Meeting. And that’ll get you into the metrics, your KPIs. And then reach out to your advisor and trainer and get to the level that Roy’s at because it’ll give you so much insight into how your business is operating, both things that are digital inspection specific and not, right. You might learn some stuff about how your marketing message is affecting you and what your retention rates, how to improve those and the type of customer you’re bringing into your business and all kinds of stuff. So make sure you get in there and get that. That’s another one of those critical success factors that you want to make sure that you’re taking advantage of. By the way John Long said that him and Adam are ready to come in for the second hour as this goes. So I guess we’re gonna keep the wheels spinning. Nah, just kidding.

– One of thew things that’s really kind of interesting is the digital shop is not a tool, it’s a mindset or process. And what’s wonderful about it is that like any program in order for it to survive, thrive and takeoff on its own it has to have something in it for everybody. So here we have something for the technician, the service advisor, the shop owner and more importantly, the customer. So it’s a process that’s well rounded, well thought out, easily duplicatable, as long as you don’t fight the process of integrating and onboarding.

– Yes, in other words as long as you don’t fight what Bill tells you and you just say, yes sir, and then do it. You’re gonna be fine.

– Don’t duck those phone calls.

– Because it’s an Easter basket of value. It’s a buffet of value, that’s awesome. Dustin, what are we talking about next week?

– We’re gonna talk about how to grow using AutoVitals. A lot of people think hey, I don’t know if this whole big set up is right for me. But you start with DBI and maybe grow into workflow, think about adding website retention and customer service and how the pieces fit and how they are all tied to shop growth and kind of different ways. And so we’re gonna be talking to a shop or two that’s gonna kind of help us, just kind of lead us through the path on growth.

– Fantastic, that’s a great show. Because that’s the thing right, if you’ve got the solution here, you might as well starting other problems that you’re having. And you’d be surprised at how that digital technology brings it all together. You probably won’t be surprised because you shop on Amazon. Especially now we’re all sitting on the couch just buying stuff and that poor guy has to come deliver all that stuff throughout the– What was that Dustin?

– My coproducer chiming in.

– Are you upset because I’m over buddy? Are you upset because I’m 12 minutes over, it’s okay.

– I was thinking Dustin was acting kind of childish.

– All right let’s get out of there. Thanks a lot for joining us, Ryan, Roy, Bill, you guys are awesome. Little gunner right there. Perfect shout out buddy, high five.

– He likes it.

– Tune in next Wednesday, same time, same place. We’re gonna learn more about how to be successful as a digital shop. Thanks a lot everyone.

– Thank you.

– Thanks.

– Go make some more money.

– All right cool, I stopped the Facebook Live stream. Sorry it went long guys but that was a good, really good stuff. Really chock full of good stuff there.

– Thanks for having me. Nice to meet you Roy.

– Yeah, nice to meet you Ryan. Take care guys, thanks Bill.

– Yeah, thank you.

– And thanks to all our participants today too. Thanks for hopping in with us, it was a lot fun.

– Catch us next week or you’ll be getting some emails on how to sign up next week too.

– Get in early and often.

– That’s right and thanks for participating in the polls, asking questions, being active, thanks everybody.

– And also before we go if there’s something that you want us to talk about, you know text that in, chat that in, give us some show ideas for you, something you’re struggling with or something you want more information about, we’ll be happy to put some shows together and maybe even ask you to come on. So until next Wednesday thanks a lot.

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